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	<title>Comments for Driving innovation in a complex world</title>
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	<description>Turning insights into ideas, one conversation at a time</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2012 01:26:04 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Ahead in 2012: Intention &amp; value systems in our culture. And a book. by sourcepov</title>
		<link>http://sourcepov.com/2012/01/01/2012-tapers/#comment-1187</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sourcepov]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2012 01:26:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sourcepov.com/2012/01/01/2012-clear-intentions-on-the-road-ahead/#comment-1187</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Phill, so many great perspectives, as always. I sense we&#039;ll have much to talk about in the months ahead, as we begin to explore societal/cultural values.  I&#039;ll definitely read the posts you&#039;ve cited here.

As recently as last night I was tweeting on social responsibility in the context of public education, and you must must have planted subtle seeds with me: I cited Spock&#039;s &quot;the good of the many&quot; .. powerful words.

You mentioned religious and political activism which is indeed strong, but don&#039;t forget the power of our consumer culture, and the weight that it bears on divisive, judgmental materialism.  Our Western consumer culture has created proliferation of choice on a ridiculous scale. I did a double take in the grocery store the other day. It&#039;s almost insane what we have created. Is there a path out of this?

I look forward to exploring these ideas with you and others. I&#039;ll be watching for seeds of conversation on values. Much important ground to cover. Thanks as always for your investment of insight and time.

Chris]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phill, so many great perspectives, as always. I sense we&#8217;ll have much to talk about in the months ahead, as we begin to explore societal/cultural values.  I&#8217;ll definitely read the posts you&#8217;ve cited here.</p>
<p>As recently as last night I was tweeting on social responsibility in the context of public education, and you must must have planted subtle seeds with me: I cited Spock&#8217;s &#8220;the good of the many&#8221; .. powerful words.</p>
<p>You mentioned religious and political activism which is indeed strong, but don&#8217;t forget the power of our consumer culture, and the weight that it bears on divisive, judgmental materialism.  Our Western consumer culture has created proliferation of choice on a ridiculous scale. I did a double take in the grocery store the other day. It&#8217;s almost insane what we have created. Is there a path out of this?</p>
<p>I look forward to exploring these ideas with you and others. I&#8217;ll be watching for seeds of conversation on values. Much important ground to cover. Thanks as always for your investment of insight and time.</p>
<p>Chris</p>
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		<title>Comment on Ahead in 2012: Intention &amp; value systems in our culture. And a book. by Phill</title>
		<link>http://sourcepov.com/2012/01/01/2012-tapers/#comment-1169</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Phill]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 14:08:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sourcepov.com/2012/01/01/2012-clear-intentions-on-the-road-ahead/#comment-1169</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s interesting that you are thinking about values and critical thinking, as I have also been thinking about these things. Values are, as Bickhard puts it, the normative edge of development, whether individual development or societal development, and I think that we will really have to start thinking deeply about values as a society and start thinking about what it would mean to be a good society. Currently, that discussion is dominated by entrenched religious and political dogma, but I think that if we step back and try to understand our own intentions and watch ourselves in action, we might be surprised by what is revealed by our actions (in terms of implicit values). 

Personally, I think that Star Trek is a great source of inspiration for thinking about values, as most of the species (at least the major ones) seem to instantiate a kind of thought experiment about what a society would look like if it were guided primarily by certain values. The human society is clearly guided by the notion of self actualization, or a eudaimonisitic individualism as I like to call it, that we should aspire for. Everything about their philosophy and social organization supports the individual in living a satisfying life, however they might image that. This contrasts with the kind of materialistic, borderline sociopathic individualism of the Ferengi. I feel like these two forms of individualism do battle in us Americans today. 

There are some interesting papers written by Mark Bickhard, John Christopher, and Robert Campbell you might be interested in, as they (especially the latter two, apropos of moral development) have spent much time writing about values. I&#039;ll just link you to their pages:

http://www.montana.edu/hhd/facultyandstaff/jchristopher.htm

http://hubcap.clemson.edu/~campber/vita.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s interesting that you are thinking about values and critical thinking, as I have also been thinking about these things. Values are, as Bickhard puts it, the normative edge of development, whether individual development or societal development, and I think that we will really have to start thinking deeply about values as a society and start thinking about what it would mean to be a good society. Currently, that discussion is dominated by entrenched religious and political dogma, but I think that if we step back and try to understand our own intentions and watch ourselves in action, we might be surprised by what is revealed by our actions (in terms of implicit values). </p>
<p>Personally, I think that Star Trek is a great source of inspiration for thinking about values, as most of the species (at least the major ones) seem to instantiate a kind of thought experiment about what a society would look like if it were guided primarily by certain values. The human society is clearly guided by the notion of self actualization, or a eudaimonisitic individualism as I like to call it, that we should aspire for. Everything about their philosophy and social organization supports the individual in living a satisfying life, however they might image that. This contrasts with the kind of materialistic, borderline sociopathic individualism of the Ferengi. I feel like these two forms of individualism do battle in us Americans today. </p>
<p>There are some interesting papers written by Mark Bickhard, John Christopher, and Robert Campbell you might be interested in, as they (especially the latter two, apropos of moral development) have spent much time writing about values. I&#8217;ll just link you to their pages:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.montana.edu/hhd/facultyandstaff/jchristopher.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.montana.edu/hhd/facultyandstaff/jchristopher.htm</a></p>
<p><a href="http://hubcap.clemson.edu/~campber/vita.html" rel="nofollow">http://hubcap.clemson.edu/~campber/vita.html</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Lakoff on Metaphor:  Rethinking how we Frame and Unpack Complex Problems by Spatial Metaphors: Mirrors of Our Emotional States &#171; Lucid View</title>
		<link>http://sourcepov.com/2011/08/31/metaphor/#comment-1164</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Spatial Metaphors: Mirrors of Our Emotional States &#171; Lucid View]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Feb 2012 22:29:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sourcepov.com/?p=2135#comment-1164</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Lakoff on Metaphor: Rethinking how we Frame and Unpack Complex Problems (sourcepov.com) [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Lakoff on Metaphor: Rethinking how we Frame and Unpack Complex Problems (sourcepov.com) [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on 21st Century Kant:  Learning to Frame Knowledge Anew (w/ help from Aristotle &amp; Wittgenstein) by sourcepov</title>
		<link>http://sourcepov.com/2012/01/22/21stc-kant-convergence/#comment-1151</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sourcepov]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 00:19:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sourcepov.com/?p=2728#comment-1151</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Nathan, thanks much for your response. I agree completely that everything in knowledge framing hinges on &lt;a href=&quot;http://bit.ly/povCTk2&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;semantics&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;.  That&#039;s why I introduced Wittgenstein to the mix. He is the clearest voice I know that all of philosophy hinges on how we define things. 

Kant&#039;s not here to explain himself, but given his &lt;em&gt;framework of categories&lt;/em&gt; that intends to describe any aspect of knowledge, I believe he&#039;d want us to apply it in ways that made practical sense.  I used my verbs as an example in the post, then later, on G+ (linked above) introduced a cinematography &lt;a href=&quot;http://bit.ly/povCTk3&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;metaphor&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;. I&#039;ve been mulling some examples from mathematics too.

The verbs helped me translate Kant into the modern vernacular, as I worked to distill insights from the rows (3) and columns (4).  If a convergent epistemology linking science, philosophy and complexity holds up, I&#039;ll be thrilled. I see echoes of Bacon/Newton as well as Descartes.  In a sense, my verbs were declaring my semantic interpretation of his 12 categories, for discussion.  By collaborating, we might improve on them; for now, they represent 12 stakes in the ground.

So far, no one has thrown me under the epistemology bus :)

I think the word &#039;absolute&#039; is always dangerous, and I hope I didn&#039;t misspeak there; certainly not my intention. 

Finally, yes, personal belief is safer, more down to earth, and more easily ascribed to the individual believer. But there&#039;s much to be said for &lt;em&gt;personal knowledge&lt;/em&gt; too, supporting customized, localized interpretations of what we come to know.  But I need to brush up on my Polanyi before I dig myself any deeper!

Appreciate the thoughts. Looking forward to more.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Nathan, thanks much for your response. I agree completely that everything in knowledge framing hinges on <a href="http://bit.ly/povCTk2" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"><strong>semantics</strong></a>.  That&#8217;s why I introduced Wittgenstein to the mix. He is the clearest voice I know that all of philosophy hinges on how we define things. </p>
<p>Kant&#8217;s not here to explain himself, but given his <em>framework of categories</em> that intends to describe any aspect of knowledge, I believe he&#8217;d want us to apply it in ways that made practical sense.  I used my verbs as an example in the post, then later, on G+ (linked above) introduced a cinematography <a href="http://bit.ly/povCTk3" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"><strong>metaphor</strong></a>. I&#8217;ve been mulling some examples from mathematics too.</p>
<p>The verbs helped me translate Kant into the modern vernacular, as I worked to distill insights from the rows (3) and columns (4).  If a convergent epistemology linking science, philosophy and complexity holds up, I&#8217;ll be thrilled. I see echoes of Bacon/Newton as well as Descartes.  In a sense, my verbs were declaring my semantic interpretation of his 12 categories, for discussion.  By collaborating, we might improve on them; for now, they represent 12 stakes in the ground.</p>
<p>So far, no one has thrown me under the epistemology bus :)</p>
<p>I think the word &#8216;absolute&#8217; is always dangerous, and I hope I didn&#8217;t misspeak there; certainly not my intention. </p>
<p>Finally, yes, personal belief is safer, more down to earth, and more easily ascribed to the individual believer. But there&#8217;s much to be said for <em>personal knowledge</em> too, supporting customized, localized interpretations of what we come to know.  But I need to brush up on my Polanyi before I dig myself any deeper!</p>
<p>Appreciate the thoughts. Looking forward to more.</p>
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		<title>Comment on 21st Century Kant:  Learning to Frame Knowledge Anew (w/ help from Aristotle &amp; Wittgenstein) by nathanhowemusic</title>
		<link>http://sourcepov.com/2012/01/22/21stc-kant-convergence/#comment-1148</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nathanhowemusic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2012 05:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sourcepov.com/?p=2728#comment-1148</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As some of your G+ commenters mentioned, the whole framework depends on the definition of knowledge.  Can there be absolute knowledge in our imperfect, mortal experience?  I propose that because the human intellect is fallible, absolute knowledge is rare at best.

The verbs in the framework are only as reliable as the person performing those functions.  Thus the framework is only useful as far as the one using it is correct - not only in the facts he already knows, but in the rational process of thought that leads him to further conclusions.

If we frame this set of ideas in the context of belief rather than knowledge, the whole thing works better.  Belief requires much less rigor to acquire than knowledge, and it can be changed when new information is available.  Absolute knowledge cannot be changed or undone, because true knowledge must be based on absolute truth.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As some of your G+ commenters mentioned, the whole framework depends on the definition of knowledge.  Can there be absolute knowledge in our imperfect, mortal experience?  I propose that because the human intellect is fallible, absolute knowledge is rare at best.</p>
<p>The verbs in the framework are only as reliable as the person performing those functions.  Thus the framework is only useful as far as the one using it is correct &#8211; not only in the facts he already knows, but in the rational process of thought that leads him to further conclusions.</p>
<p>If we frame this set of ideas in the context of belief rather than knowledge, the whole thing works better.  Belief requires much less rigor to acquire than knowledge, and it can be changed when new information is available.  Absolute knowledge cannot be changed or undone, because true knowledge must be based on absolute truth.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on 21st Century Kant:  Learning to Frame Knowledge Anew (w/ help from Aristotle &amp; Wittgenstein) by sourcepov</title>
		<link>http://sourcepov.com/2012/01/22/21stc-kant-convergence/#comment-1147</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sourcepov]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2012 04:41:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sourcepov.com/?p=2728#comment-1147</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Additional feedback &amp; some good dialog on the original January 24 G+ post - would love to incorporate any additional responses http://plus.google.com/112716393253926659697/posts/4WNZVCiunSh]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Additional feedback &amp; some good dialog on the original January 24 G+ post &#8211; would love to incorporate any additional responses <a href="http://plus.google.com/112716393253926659697/posts/4WNZVCiunSh" rel="nofollow">http://plus.google.com/112716393253926659697/posts/4WNZVCiunSh</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on 21st Century Kant:  Learning to Frame Knowledge Anew (w/ help from Aristotle &amp; Wittgenstein) by sourcepov</title>
		<link>http://sourcepov.com/2012/01/22/21stc-kant-convergence/#comment-1138</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sourcepov]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2012 12:54:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sourcepov.com/?p=2728#comment-1138</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So great to hear, Carsten, my sincere thanks. Energy for the deep dive was fueled by the great feedback you and others provided on in our foundational &lt;a href=&quot;http://bit.ly/povCTk4&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;Divergence&quot; stream&lt;/a&gt;. The time? Carved mostly out of sleeping hours! Can&#039;t wait to hear back.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So great to hear, Carsten, my sincere thanks. Energy for the deep dive was fueled by the great feedback you and others provided on in our foundational <a href="http://bit.ly/povCTk4" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">&#8220;Divergence&#8221; stream</a>. The time? Carved mostly out of sleeping hours! Can&#8217;t wait to hear back.</p>
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		<title>Comment on 21st Century Kant:  Learning to Frame Knowledge Anew (w/ help from Aristotle &amp; Wittgenstein) by Carsten Hucho</title>
		<link>http://sourcepov.com/2012/01/22/21stc-kant-convergence/#comment-1136</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Carsten Hucho]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2012 09:26:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sourcepov.com/?p=2728#comment-1136</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Chris, I just started reading your deep-dive text - and I am excited. I will cancel a meeting this noon (which is in two hours :) ) to take some time and read through it.
You obviously did some impressive research (on one of my favourite philosophers) - and aimed at quite a daring translation/expansion.
(aside from the intellectual power - where do you take the time for such endeavours?!)
thanks for the inspiration!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, I just started reading your deep-dive text &#8211; and I am excited. I will cancel a meeting this noon (which is in two hours :) ) to take some time and read through it.<br />
You obviously did some impressive research (on one of my favourite philosophers) &#8211; and aimed at quite a daring translation/expansion.<br />
(aside from the intellectual power &#8211; where do you take the time for such endeavours?!)<br />
thanks for the inspiration!</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Divergence of Thought in Science &amp; Philosophy: Could &#8220;Complexity&#8221; be New Common Ground? by sourcepov</title>
		<link>http://sourcepov.com/2011/10/31/two-roads-diverged-the-great-divide-in-science-and-philosophy-can-complexity-be-a-new-common-ground/#comment-1134</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sourcepov]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2012 01:40:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sourcepov.com/2011/10/31/two-roads-diverged-the-great-divide-in-science-and-philosophy-can-complexity-be-a-new-common-ground/#comment-1134</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This article is a great connection, Paula. The article by Thomas Petzinger in the WSJ truly DOES capture much of this thinking. Sadly, we have yet to change our culture or our paradigms so that we might adapt into the more organic space of the 21st century.

That work lies ahead, but, perhaps, we will start to address it in the near term.  Enjoyed connecting again. 

Let&#039;s change some paradigms!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This article is a great connection, Paula. The article by Thomas Petzinger in the WSJ truly DOES capture much of this thinking. Sadly, we have yet to change our culture or our paradigms so that we might adapt into the more organic space of the 21st century.</p>
<p>That work lies ahead, but, perhaps, we will start to address it in the near term.  Enjoyed connecting again. </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s change some paradigms!</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Divergence of Thought in Science &amp; Philosophy: Could &#8220;Complexity&#8221; be New Common Ground? by Paula Thornton (@rotkapchen)</title>
		<link>http://sourcepov.com/2011/10/31/two-roads-diverged-the-great-divide-in-science-and-philosophy-can-complexity-be-a-new-common-ground/#comment-1127</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paula Thornton (@rotkapchen)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jan 2012 02:32:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sourcepov.com/2011/10/31/two-roads-diverged-the-great-divide-in-science-and-philosophy-can-complexity-be-a-new-common-ground/#comment-1127</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I can only imagine who would be leading these conversations today, if social media had really been in full swing in 1999 when this hit the front cover of the business section of the Wall Street Journal http://www.shkaminski.com/Classes/MNGT5590/Petzinger%20WSJ.htm

I remember the day I saw it, and what a rush it was to see it in the WSJ, because I was already studying the topic. It made it seem like it was finally &#039;mainstream&#039; to me. And here we are over a decade later...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can only imagine who would be leading these conversations today, if social media had really been in full swing in 1999 when this hit the front cover of the business section of the Wall Street Journal <a href="http://www.shkaminski.com/Classes/MNGT5590/Petzinger%20WSJ.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.shkaminski.com/Classes/MNGT5590/Petzinger%20WSJ.htm</a></p>
<p>I remember the day I saw it, and what a rush it was to see it in the WSJ, because I was already studying the topic. It made it seem like it was finally &#8216;mainstream&#8217; to me. And here we are over a decade later&#8230;</p>
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